Comments on: Marriage and Relationships: Consideration and Permission http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/ Exploring Healthy Psychotherapy Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:35:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Suzanne http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-27625 Suzanne Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:00:50 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-27625 Its ironic that I came across this website. I had this discussion with my boyfriend and we do not even live together. He wanted me to ask him “does he mind if I go visit my daughter at college”.I told him I would tell him that Im going to visit my daughter and does he mind. I told him I had a problem of asking him for permission to go visit my daughter. To him it was in consideration to him. I really had this feeling of being controlled and told him I would tell him and then ask him if he was ok with that. OMG it went no where and I felt something was wrong in me asking him for permission to go see my daughter and he argued it was in consideration. Well, by reading this i understand it is all in how you say it. I felt i was this child asking him for permission. Im thankful that this came to my fingers in a moment of dispute. The consideration is asking adult to adult. WOW so easy but so hard for us to do. Its ironic that I came across this website. I had this discussion with my boyfriend and we do not even live together. He wanted me to ask him “does he mind if I go visit my daughter at college”.I told him I would tell him that Im going to visit my daughter and does he mind. I told him I had a problem of asking him for permission to go visit my daughter. To him it was in consideration to him. I really had this feeling of being controlled and told him I would tell him and then ask him if he was ok with that. OMG it went no where and I felt something was wrong in me asking him for permission to go see my daughter and he argued it was in consideration. Well, by reading this i understand it is all in how you say it. I felt i was this child asking him for permission. Im thankful that this came to my fingers in a moment of dispute. The consideration is asking adult to adult. WOW so easy but so hard for us to do.

]]> By: Suzanne http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-27624 Suzanne Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:58:47 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-27624 Its ironic that I came across this website. I had this discussion with my boyfriend and we do not even live together. He wanted me to ask him "does he mind if I go visit my daughter at college".I told him I would tell him that Im going to visit my daughter and does he mind. I told him I had a problem of asking him for permission to go visit my daughter. To him it was in consideration to him. I really had this feeling of being controlled and told him I would tell him and then ask him if he was ok with that. OMG it went no where and I felt something was wrong in me asking him for permission to go see my daughter and he argued it was in consideration. Well, by reading this i understand it is all in how you say it. I felt i was this child asking him for permission. Im thankful that this came to my fingers in a moment of dispute. The consideration is asking adult to adult. WOW so easy but so hard for us to do. Its ironic that I came across this website. I had this discussion with my boyfriend and we do not even live together. He wanted me to ask him “does he mind if I go visit my daughter at college”.I told him I would tell him that Im going to visit my daughter and does he mind. I told him I had a problem of asking him for permission to go visit my daughter. To him it was in consideration to him. I really had this feeling of being controlled and told him I would tell him and then ask him if he was ok with that. OMG it went no where and I felt something was wrong in me asking him for permission to go see my daughter and he argued it was in consideration. Well, by reading this i understand it is all in how you say it. I felt i was this child asking him for permission. Im thankful that this came to my fingers in a moment of dispute. The consideration is asking adult to adult. WOW so easy but so hard for us to do.

]]> By: Dr. Jim Hutt http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-26951 Dr. Jim Hutt Sat, 23 Jan 2010 19:57:37 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-26951 Josh, OK, Josh, here's the thing--Consideration is not the same as permission. What I am attempting to convey is that when a couple has the well-being of the relationship in mind, and the well being of the partner and ones self, consideration is the healthy, effective stance to take. That means that when you want to do something, whether it's playing poker after work, or a 10 day fishing/golf/kayak trip with your buds, the default position is to CONSIDER the impact of what you want to do on your partner. Basically, it's the same process an individual uses to make any decision: We CONSIDER the pros, cons, logistics, consequences, etc., and then make the decision we make with that data in mind. On your way home from work, you said the following to your partner: “Hey babe I am going to go play poker tonight at 7:00.″ In my opinion, that sounds like a DECLARATION, not a CONSIDERATION. The CONSIDERATION profile might sound something like the following: "Hey, babe, I have an invitation to play poker tonight--howz that fit with what's going on? How do you feel about that?" So, alright, maybe she says ,"Oh I really wanted us to spend the evening together watching Project Runway with you curled up on the couch. I'll be disappointed if we don't do that." OK, so now you've heard her desire, and now you can consider it. Maybe you think to yourself, 'well, I haven't spent a whole lot of time with her recently, so maybe, in the interest of keeping the relationship in a healthy state, I'll bypass tonight's poker game.' Or, maybe you think to yourself, ' well, I haven't had a night out with the guys for 2 weeks, and I need some refuel time, and it really seems that she's depending on me more than I'm comfortable with, so we have to talk about this at some point. So, I'm going to play poker.' In either scenario, you can decide to play poker or not, and she can be OK with it or not, but you have considered hers and your feelings. You have NOT asked for permission. Instead, you HAVE CONSIDERED the variables of the situation, and made your decision. Bottom line: the only one who can give you permission is YOU. Not knowing the two of you I can only guess that perhaps you're likely to view any consideration as permission when it's not, and she may be, as you say, more dependent on you at this time than is comfortable for you or is healthy for the relationship. So, keep talking to each other about this, and if you find yourselves getting tripped up and not making progress, see a therapist. Thanks for contributing! I really appreciate it. Josh,

OK, Josh, here’s the thing–Consideration is not the same as permission. What I am attempting to convey is that when a couple has the well-being of the relationship in mind, and the well being of the partner and ones self, consideration is the healthy, effective stance to take.

That means that when you want to do something, whether it’s playing poker after work, or a 10 day fishing/golf/kayak trip with your buds, the default position is to CONSIDER the impact of what you want to do on your partner. Basically, it’s the same process an individual uses to make any decision: We CONSIDER the pros, cons, logistics, consequences, etc., and then make the decision we make with that data in mind.

On your way home from work, you said the following to your partner: “Hey babe I am going to go play poker tonight at 7:00.″ In my opinion, that sounds like a DECLARATION, not a CONSIDERATION.

The CONSIDERATION profile might sound something like the following: “Hey, babe, I have an invitation to play poker tonight–howz that fit with what’s going on? How do you feel about that?” So, alright, maybe she says ,”Oh I really wanted us to spend the evening together watching Project Runway with you curled up on the couch. I’ll be disappointed if we don’t do that.”

OK, so now you’ve heard her desire, and now you can consider it. Maybe you think to yourself, ‘well, I haven’t spent a whole lot of time with her recently, so maybe, in the interest of keeping the relationship in a healthy state, I’ll bypass tonight’s poker game.’

Or, maybe you think to yourself, ‘ well, I haven’t had a night out with the guys for 2 weeks, and I need some refuel time, and it really seems that she’s depending on me more than I’m comfortable with, so we have to talk about this at some point. So, I’m going to play poker.’

In either scenario, you can decide to play poker or not, and she can be OK with it or not, but you have considered hers and your feelings. You have NOT asked for permission.
Instead, you HAVE CONSIDERED the variables of the situation, and made your decision.
Bottom line: the only one who can give you permission is YOU.

Not knowing the two of you I can only guess that perhaps you’re likely to view any consideration as permission when it’s not, and she may be, as you say, more dependent on you at this time than is comfortable for you or is healthy for the relationship.

So, keep talking to each other about this, and if you find yourselves getting tripped up and not making progress, see a therapist.

Thanks for contributing! I really appreciate it.

]]> By: Josh http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-26939 Josh Sat, 23 Jan 2010 06:08:48 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-26939 Here is what I wrote to the doc. thought you all might want to give me some feedback good or bad. Nice article on permission or consideration. Can I get your thoughts on my situation? I have a girlfriend who wants me to ask her "if it's good with you", "Are you alright with that" when I am informing her of something I have planned without her knowing i.e. it's 4:00 and I am on my way home from work and I give her a call to say "Hey babe I am going to go play poker tonight at 7:00" and she gets mad that I didn't use the following responses given above. I have been honest to her from the start that I don't want to have to ask permission in our daily decisions and neither do you. I have seen this work very well in relationships and that is how I want mine to be. I don't want the customary relationship of asking permission to do things, the majority of the guys who are married at work have this permission relationship and they are miserable. "If she is happy then I am happy" that is total BS. Oh and I love the ole "Kitchen Pass", what are they 12? Back to the above situation in further detail. After 5 minutes into the conversation I let her know I am going to go play poker, (money wasn't the issue, it's cheap poker, and I rarely gamble, and no she doesn't have someone close to her that has a gambling problem) and I would understand if it conflicted with something she had planned for us or we have standing plans for that day of the week but she didn't and we don't. Why is she so upset about this, I can't relate? Maybe it's the difference between us in how she always ask for my permission or thoughts on every decision she is confronted with and I am more internal about things and rarely get peoples opinion (this email aside). Were obviously not talking about major decisions ie. jobs, moving, large purchases, events we go to as a couple... It is more like me letting her know "I am going to stop by my friends house on the way home and have a beer" types of situations. I am having a hard time with this and it is causing her to be very upset because she thinks I don't respect her. I feel like I don't need a another mother and we are both grown adults who can make decisions for our selfs. I let her know that she doesn't have to ask my permission to do things, just let me know what she is doing when she tries to ask for permission to do things isn't that fare? I like to have a very equal relationship and feel like we should both play by the same rules but she doesn't agree with the rule. That may seem pompous to call it a rule but I feel like I have always been honest from the start about this situation. She has rules, every relationship has rules if we like it or not, i.e. I can't drink from the milk jug, I have to put the toilet seat down after using it, no farting at the dinner table (she does this), I sleep closest to the door (her rule)... These are mutual rules if we like it or not. In my opinion I think that she just doesn't want to be alone, she moved here 6 months ago and has a few friends she sees when I have made plans in advance going alone somewhere. I think she is attached to me in an unhealthy way and she is using this permission thing as her excuse. She is just happy when we are home together and I think we should have a balanced relationship of being together and being with our friends separately. And yes I have confronted her about this and yes she thinks there is some merit to it. Well, I am done rambling and just want someone's honest opinion on this and I thought your article was a logically written article which I may or may not agree with so I asked you for your thoughts. Really, to be honest I wrote this email because it helped me sort through my thoughts to make sure I was seeing both sides which I try and do on a daily basis. The only problem is I can't see her side of it, I don't think it's healthy to do what she is asking. Your thoughts please... Please excuse the grammar errors, I am an engineer who is good at math not English. Josh Here is what I wrote to the doc. thought you all might want to give me some feedback good or bad.

Nice article on permission or consideration. Can I get your thoughts on my situation?
I have a girlfriend who wants me to ask her “if it’s good with you”, “Are you alright with that” when I am informing her of something I have planned without her knowing i.e. it’s 4:00 and I am on my way home from work and I give her a call to say “Hey babe I am going to go play poker tonight at 7:00″ and she gets mad that I didn’t use the following responses given above. I have been honest to her from the start that I don’t want to have to ask permission in our daily decisions and neither do you. I have seen this work very well in relationships and that is how I want mine to be. I don’t want the customary relationship of asking permission to do things, the majority of the guys who are married at work have this permission relationship and they are miserable. “If she is happy then I am happy” that is total BS. Oh and I love the ole “Kitchen Pass”, what are they 12?

Back to the above situation in further detail. After 5 minutes into the conversation I let her know I am going to go play poker, (money wasn’t the issue, it’s cheap poker, and I rarely gamble, and no she doesn’t have someone close to her that has a gambling problem) and I would understand if it conflicted with something she had planned for us or we have standing plans for that day of the week but she didn’t and we don’t. Why is she so upset about this, I can’t relate? Maybe it’s the difference between us in how she always ask for my permission or thoughts on every decision she is confronted with and I am more internal about things and rarely get peoples opinion (this email aside). Were obviously not talking about major decisions ie. jobs, moving, large purchases, events we go to as a couple… It is more like me letting her know “I am going to stop by my friends house on the way home and have a beer” types of situations. I am having a hard time with this and it is causing her to be very upset because she thinks I don’t respect her. I feel like I don’t need a another mother and we are both grown adults who can make decisions for our selfs. I let her know that she doesn’t have to ask my permission to do things, just let me know what she is doing when she tries to ask for permission to do things isn’t that fare? I like to have a very equal relationship and feel like we should both play by the same rules but she doesn’t agree with the rule. That may seem pompous to call it a rule but I feel like I have always been honest from the start about this situation. She has rules, every relationship has rules if we like it or not, i.e. I can’t drink from the milk jug, I have to put the toilet seat down after using it, no farting at the dinner table (she does this), I sleep closest to the door (her rule)… These are mutual rules if we like it or not.
In my opinion I think that she just doesn’t want to be alone, she moved here 6 months ago and has a few friends she sees when I have made plans in advance going alone somewhere. I think she is attached to me in an unhealthy way and she is using this permission thing as her excuse. She is just happy when we are home together and I think we should have a balanced relationship of being together and being with our friends separately. And yes I have confronted her about this and yes she thinks there is some merit to it.

Well, I am done rambling and just want someone’s honest opinion on this and I thought your article was a logically written article which I may or may not agree with so I asked you for your thoughts. Really, to be honest I wrote this email because it helped me sort through my thoughts to make sure I was seeing both sides which I try and do on a daily basis. The only problem is I can’t see her side of it, I don’t think it’s healthy to do what she is asking. Your thoughts please… Please excuse the grammar errors, I am an engineer who is good at math not English.

Josh

]]> By: Lila http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-14059 Lila Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:27:44 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-14059 Kenya I totally agree with you. Sometimes it is not necessarily asking for permission but just being considerate of another's schedules and feelings just to run things by him first. He may have plans for you already or might just want to spend a little time together. Is that so wrong? Sometimes I think that there are some women who mistakenly feel that if they ask permission for something then they are taking a step back on the feminist movement scale and that is simply not true! It is just a way of being considerate of your significant other and making plans together rather than effectively living two separate lives. Kenya I totally agree with you. Sometimes it is not necessarily asking for permission but just being considerate of another’s schedules and feelings just to run things by him first. He may have plans for you already or might just want to spend a little time together. Is that so wrong? Sometimes I think that there are some women who mistakenly feel that if they ask permission for something then they are taking a step back on the feminist movement scale and that is simply not true! It is just a way of being considerate of your significant other and making plans together rather than effectively living two separate lives.

]]> By: Kenya http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-14041 Kenya Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:01:20 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-14041 Am I the only one who is still considerate enough of my spouse to ask him if it is OK for me to do something? I never really see this as asking for his permission, just that I care enough about him to let him know what is going on. Am I the only one who is still considerate enough of my spouse to ask him if it is OK for me to do something? I never really see this as asking for his permission, just that I care enough about him to let him know what is going on.

]]> By: tyra http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-14021 tyra Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:06:14 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-14021 All relationships are complicated but I do believe marriage complicates friendship a great deal. I married my best friend and never had to ask his permission or didnt expect him to fit into a framework. However 2 years into marriage, I feel we have lost the friend we were to each other because expectations have come in. He is constantly accusing me of never asking him for permission and I am constanly accusing him of always expecting me to consult him. This article gave me some hope though. All relationships are complicated but I do believe marriage complicates friendship a great deal. I married my best friend and never had to ask his permission or didnt expect him to fit into a framework. However 2 years into marriage, I feel we have lost the friend we were to each other because expectations have come in. He is constantly accusing me of never asking him for permission and I am constanly accusing him of always expecting me to consult him. This article gave me some hope though.

]]> By: Holli http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-14015 Holli Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:30:56 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-14015 I am so sad to hear that Irene. My sister in law was in the same kind of relationship, but she finally got out of it, thank God. It is really hard for someone to get out of a relationship if they really love that person, but sometimes I believe they don't understand it would be for the better to get out. I think some of these men put in their heads that they won't find anyone else and so the women stay. It really is sad. I am so sad to hear that Irene. My sister in law was in the same kind of relationship, but she finally got out of it, thank God. It is really hard for someone to get out of a relationship if they really love that person, but sometimes I believe they don’t understand it would be for the better to get out. I think some of these men put in their heads that they won’t find anyone else and so the women stay. It really is sad.

]]> By: Irene http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-13995 Irene Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:20:03 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-13995 I saw my mother live in fear in a relationship with a man of whom she had to ask permission to do anything. I tried for years to get her to leave him but she never could work up the strength and courage to do it. She is now dead, from his hands, and I never wat to see that happen to another woman again. There is simply no reason why a relationship has to be like this. If you find yourself in an abusive relationship where you practically have to ask permission to breathe I encourage you to get out now. I saw my mother live in fear in a relationship with a man of whom she had to ask permission to do anything. I tried for years to get her to leave him but she never could work up the strength and courage to do it. She is now dead, from his hands, and I never wat to see that happen to another woman again. There is simply no reason why a relationship has to be like this. If you find yourself in an abusive relationship where you practically have to ask permission to breathe I encourage you to get out now.

]]> By: Mike http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-13957 Mike Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:53:10 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-13957 I was in a relationship for many many years where I felt like I had to ask permission for everything that I did. I lived on the verge of always causing an upset in the house just because I may be a few minutes late coming home from work or for making plans without first consulting my now ex wife. She drove me to the edge of madness. It was a control issue for her and a jealousy issue as well and finally I could take it no more. She was getting this way with the kids too when it looked as if they were developing any new interests outside of the home so that is when I finally had enough and had to get out of it. I was in a relationship for many many years where I felt like I had to ask permission for everything that I did. I lived on the verge of always causing an upset in the house just because I may be a few minutes late coming home from work or for making plans without first consulting my now ex wife. She drove me to the edge of madness. It was a control issue for her and a jealousy issue as well and finally I could take it no more. She was getting this way with the kids too when it looked as if they were developing any new interests outside of the home so that is when I finally had enough and had to get out of it.

]]> By: Jill http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-13933 Jill Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:52:08 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-13933 I do know so many people who fall in the permission part, but I admire the ones who are in a relationship where there significant others understand that we also need our own time. I believe it is not healthy to be so totally afraid of doing what one likes just because the other doesn't like it. I do know so many people who fall in the permission part, but I admire the ones who are in a relationship where there significant others understand that we also need our own time. I believe it is not healthy to be so totally afraid of doing what one likes just because the other doesn’t like it.

]]> By: patty http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-13931 patty Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:50:09 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-13931 I agree... It is sad to be in a relationship like this, but some of us do fall into the permission category. It is time for us to stand up and be adults and if it is not hurting anyone, then there should be no problem in taking time for ourselves. I agree… It is sad to be in a relationship like this, but some of us do fall into the permission category. It is time for us to stand up and be adults and if it is not hurting anyone, then there should be no problem in taking time for ourselves.

]]> By: AMH http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-13917 AMH Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:06:13 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-13917 It is one thing to be considerate of a partner, but another thing entirley to feel like I have to ask for permission to do something. That is certainly not the type of relationship I choose to be in. It is one thing to be considerate of a partner, but another thing entirley to feel like I have to ask for permission to do something. That is certainly not the type of relationship I choose to be in.

]]> By: Eliza http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-13889 Eliza Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:38:47 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-13889 As a single girl it is very disheartening to hear that there are married couples who still communicate and act as if they have to get permission from one another to do things. I say let us all be adults here and if something is reasonable then I should not have to ask. I should be able to discuss things in a rational manner but I never want to be in a marriage where it feels as if I have to ask for permission to do something! As a single girl it is very disheartening to hear that there are married couples who still communicate and act as if they have to get permission from one another to do things. I say let us all be adults here and if something is reasonable then I should not have to ask. I should be able to discuss things in a rational manner but I never want to be in a marriage where it feels as if I have to ask for permission to do something!

]]> By: Leeza http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-13879 Leeza Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:25:21 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-13879 I too fall in the permission category here. My friends will just say, "just tell him you are going to do this". I can't do that, because I feel like that is somewhat disrespectful and not caring. Maybe I should try the consideration. I too fall in the permission category here. My friends will just say, “just tell him you are going to do this”. I can’t do that, because I feel like that is somewhat disrespectful and not caring. Maybe I should try the consideration.

]]> By: Brandee http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/marriage-relationships-consideration/comment-page-1/#comment-13877 Brandee Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:23:55 +0000 http://www.goodtherapy.org/custom/blog/?p=1265#comment-13877 This article describes me to a T.. I am always asking permission to do something which I know will leave my husband at home. I don't ask for much, I would love to go shopping or hanging out with friends, but he is the type who wants to come along, or if it's just one of my friends wanting me to do something with her, he has to respond.."So I guess I'm just going to stay here at home, while your out having fun." Sometimes I would love to be able to just up and go and do something... but I don't because I know it would hurt his feelings that he's not invited, or I know what the answer will be. I do feel like a child in these situations. This article describes me to a T.. I am always asking permission to do something which I know will leave my husband at home. I don’t ask for much, I would love to go shopping or hanging out with friends, but he is the type who wants to come along, or if it’s just one of my friends wanting me to do something with her, he has to respond..”So I guess I’m just going to stay here at home, while your out having fun.” Sometimes I would love to be able to just up and go and do something… but I don’t because I know it would hurt his feelings that he’s not invited, or I know what the answer will be. I do feel like a child in these situations.

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